With Jason Revere @jason.revere on Instagram, Owner of You Can Yoga  and Author of Get Your Head Out of Your Asana: The Yoga Book That Isn’t 

Gian: Okay. So, um, hey everyone. Uh, welcome to the Critical Beings Podcast. My name is Gian Hernandez. I am a postdoc at the University of Amsterdam in the Amsterdam School of Communication Research.

And today I’m very excited to welcome, uh, this episode’s guest. He is the owner of “You Can Yoga” Studio in Amsterdam. Author of the book, Get Your Head Out of Your Asana, and founder of a new developing space in northern Italy called L’Altra Riva for Community Living, getting off the Grid, yoga retreats, and, uh, more information, which I’m sure he’ll, uh, we will discuss.so please join me in welcoming Jason Revere. Hey Jason, how’s it going?

Jason: Hey, it’s going very well. Warm, but happy? Yes.

Gian: Nice, nice. And do you wanna give your, maybe yourself a little bit more of a, you know an extensive introduction. Do you wanna maybe talk a bit a bit about some of the things I’ve mentioned or maybe something I could add.

Jason: Um, I think you kind of, uh, covered all the bases. Uh, and probably the rest will just come out in conversation, like more detail. I mean, I could speak about what I do for hours on end, but you know, it’s your time, not mine.

Gian: It’s, it’s, no, it’s, it’s both of our time. I really want, I’m really excited to have like a conversation, right? Like it’s really about, you know, Juxtaposing our own. You know, I really appreciate your expertise and I hope I can, like, we can sort of have some, something a little more generative. You know what I mean? Right? Yeah, yeah.

Jason: Understand.

Gian: Cool. Cool. So, yeah, I mean, let’s, I guess we could just dive right into it.

So, the topic also for the listeners out there, I’m, I’m interested with this podcast to kind of delve into physical embodiment, the way people are different in their bodies, how bodies work, like what people’s perspectives are on bodies.

And because you are obviously a professional in a body-oriented field- yoga, I’m really curious to hear your, your thoughts and, and think about, you know, what it means to be critical, for example, right? I’m interested in this notion of be being “critical” and hence the title of the podcast, Critical Beings.

So, I guess let’s open up with that. What do you, what do you think of when I say the word critical, what does critical mean to you?

Jason: In relation to my work? or?

Gian: Yeah,

Jason: or in, or in general? Like

Gian: There’s no, there’s no wrong answers. I really just want to hear, you know, I wanna hear what you, what you have to say.

Jason: Well, based on what you’ve said so far and the variety of different body types, um, that’s one of the main things I push home to students who are doing intensive trainings and studies with me is, in the world of yoga, you have like Insta yogis. So, the people who are focused more on appearance and form and perfection and beauty and.

That’s the farthest thing from yoga you can actually imagine, and that has sort of destroyed and polluted the industry a lot. Um, but what I push home to people first is one, you are not a medical professional. You are not a physical therapist, so please do not give people this sort of unsolicited or solicited advice.

And two, if I’m teaching you form for an Asana, Asana are the poses. If I’m teaching you form, I’m using an illustration, but just because this is where the person in the illustration goes, that does not mean that’s where everyone should be. And when I’m teaching, I use different body types. Specifically for this purpose, I will make five people of different age, fitness level, flexibility level do the same exact position to show the students the variety, what to expect and why you should never push anyone to get to what you think is a perfect form.

You don’t know their bodies, you don’t know their joints, you don’t know anything about them. A stranger just walked into the room and is doing yoga with you. That’s all you know. So, to try to push your idea of the form of this position onto another person is ignorant and dangerous. Yes.

Gian: Hmm. I feel that. Yeah. Um, I did, so I lived in India for six months and I was struck by the, I would go, I would go to yoga every morning. And I was struck by the difference of like, having been in like more Western studios and then just how much of a, like, I mean, it sounds very cliche, but like how very, like no nonsense. Like none of this, you know, hodoo joojoo all this weird stuff around, around, um, like the mysticism and everything. Like, you know it, when I was there in India, it was just like, you know, people in a room doing yoga, trying to be flexible, like having a practice, and it was really, really nice.

Um, and I really appreciate this idea of like, okay, so you’re not this spiritual leader that’s trying to force your idea and you use this word push, right? Can you maybe say a little bit more about how you feel that some people maybe push too much?

Jason: Well, it depends. One on this, who, let’s say whoever we’re speaking about is motivation to do yoga, but a lot of schools in yoga, it’s really about form perfection.

You can’t do one pose unless you perfect the one before it. Um, I don’t want to talk negatively against any schools because that’s not the subject of this conversation, but it exists, and I know so many people who have been injured permanently. That, uh, because of this, this idea. Um, so, uh, yeah. Um, now I lost my train of thought.

Gian: Well, no, but like, but I that’s actually, I mean, Because the notion is critical, right? And we’re thinking about critique, we’re thinking about criticism. Right. Different things. But I’m just, I’m interested also in your perception of the field, and maybe you obviously don’t have to mention any specific names, but I really wanna hear about, you know, where you think you know, yoga is going or where you are thinking, you think, oh no, no.

Gian: The thing about

Jason: Bad and I lost, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know what’s happening. I don’t know if it’s you or me. Hang on. But our video has completely frozen. Yeah.

Gian: Hang on, hang on. It just started.

Jason: Okay.

Gian: Wait, I’m, I,

Jason: You’re back now and everything is stable, so maybe you can edit that out and we start over with your question.

Gian: Yeah, yeah. Let’s, let’s, um, let’s go back. Okay. So, um, I don’t know how much of my question you heard.

Jason: Just say the whole thing again.

Gian: Okay. Okay. So, um, you don’t have to, so I’m interested in, in hearing what you said about, you know, the field and, and you don’t have to mention any other, any other names of, of schools, but I’m, I, I, I do actually wanna hear what your, what your ideas are on, you know, where, for example, uh, yoga is going as a whole and how you think, uh, you know, these different body types or, or, or any other different kinds of approaches might fit in.

Jason: Right. Okay. Well, the thing about yoga is it is it comes from, uh, a vast body of knowledge, right? And you can choose which of those you would like to follow. Um, that’s why there are so many different, uh, schools with a completely different approach to yoga, what it is, how to practice, but. Fundamentally, yoga is one thing.

Quieting the mind. That’s it. That’s what you’re trying to do. When people use the word “union”, it’s misinterpreted as, oh, I want to unify myself with like, uh, with God or whatever. Body mind connection. No, it’s about, one, developing a sense of awareness. And using that sense of awareness to hone your focus so that you can focus on one thing and not be trapped in the continuous cycle of the mind, always needing some sorts of stimulation, justification, validation, whatever you wanna call it.

All you’re trying to do at the end of the day in yoga is destroy the idea of a separate sense of self. That’s what’s meant by union, if you will, but it’s not unifying yourself with something. It’s removing the belief or idea that you are a separate self from the whole. Um, do you want me to go deeper into that? Like do you want me to break down terminology for you?

Gian: Well, no, no. I mean, so, so I already, I already have a bunch of questions, so let’s maybe let, like, so, so I’m interested because you, it’s, I hear it’s. And this is also something, you know, like I, I’ve, I’ve spoken to other yoga folks and also like mental health professionals and stuff, and there’s obviously this like Cartesian notion of the separate mind and body.

so, I’m hearing sort of shadows of that as well and what you’re saying, where, where is the body, what can you, can you maybe expand a little bit more on like what role does the body play in this union.

Jason: Alright, so back to the beginning. 3, 3, 3 basic terms just to help with the descriptive process. So there’s. Brahman basically means consciousness. Everything is Brahman. Now, your experience of Brahman from your biological bag of flesh, that is our vehicle that’s considered Atman, right? But Ataman is one small piece of Brahman, everything that Atman is experiencing, which is outside of the body.

It is called Maya. Maya means illusion. So, everything that you think, experience, believe, is all an illusion, and it’s all built on your conditioning, your development, your separate sense of self. So, what you’re trying to do in yoga is first calm down your mind so that you can learn how to focus on one thing, right?

Then you try to find one thing that you would like to focus on, and that’s going to be the question that drives your practice. I make all my students have a question, like, why are you doing this? Let’s start there.

And you take this focus, you apply it to this question until that question starts to disassemble and fall apart because anything under deep inspection will start to dismantle itself, and that’s what you’re trying to do. But you’re trying to do that with the idea of yourself, and that’s the basis of what a yoga practice is. It’s not about the body. The body is just one tool. And yoga you have, they’re called the four paths, right?

So, you have Jnana Yoga, which is the philosophical branch of yoga. Then you have Rāja Yoga, which is the scientific branch of yoga, which is where Hatha yoga falls into place, which is the use of the body. Then you have Karma yoga, which is selfless service, and then you have Bhakti yoga, which is more devotional and think religious like chanting, devoting your life to a deity.

But the goal of all of those is the same thing. To remove you from the idea that you are a separate self apart from consciousness. Everything is the same, everything is consciousness. Anything outside of that falls in the realm of Maya, and you just believe that it’s true, but it doesn’t make it true.

Gian: Okay. Yeah. No, but I mean, so because I, I keep coming back to also, you know, just. Because of my interest in embodiment and also like the podcast and everything, I keep coming. I really like this. Or I, I’m curious more about this information about this formulation of your body is a tool. What is it a tool for that?

Jason: I can’t tell you that, but in yoga, it’s the only vehicle we have, right? It’s all you, it’s all you know, and it’s the only thing you can use to reach your goal, whatever that goal may be. In yoga, the goal is to remove the idea of a separate sense of self. So, we use our bodies to get to this point, to focus, how?

By changing our physiological state, by starting with the breathing. Once you can get your body to do, it’s called a full yogic breath. When you’re using all three stages of breath, right? When you’re breathing deep and slow and properly. You flip your physiological state from fight or flight to rest and restore from the bear is chasing me to there is no bear.

And only when you get to the sense of there is no bear, can the mind start to slow down in focus because you’ve removed this idea of stress and you’ve used your body as a tool to change the flux of the mind.

Gian: Humm, yeah. That makes, I mean, yeah, that makes sense. It’s also interesting especially thinking about one of my sort of research orientations is thinking of the interview as an affective, embodied interaction and not necessarily like a sort of extractive practice where I’m getting information out of you, which is why I encourage like, disagreement, tension, you know, asking me questions, like all of those things.

Like that’s, I think that’s really cool. But also, I noticed that, as you mentioned this deep breathing, I started breathing more deeply. I started diaphragmatic breathing. Um, cuz I trained as a, as a musician, I have a degree in trumpet. And so, I was like, Ooh, let me stop breathing at the clavicle and let me start breathing down to where I would have to, you know, like shoot some high notes out there.So, I was like, oh, that, that’s also physiologically something that uh…

Jason: And it immediately has an effect.

Gian: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Jason: And it, that is the crux of developing a yoga practice. The first thing I ask, how’s your breathing? If you’re breathing properly, then I want to get to your mind, but I don’t wanna fuck around in your mind if you’re in some sort of hyper state or your breath is short.

No, because then I’m there. There’s too much going on for me to even get you to be able to focus on something. So the first thing you have to do is just sort of bring people down. Hmm. And I have this effect on people in general. I notice when I’m in a group, all of a sudden, after just a couple of minutes, the people around me start sitting up straighter.

Gian: That’s, yeah. No, I get, I get that. I think you’ve actually asked me, when we’ve hung out before. I think you’ve asked me “how’s your breathing?” before. So I was like, oh. Uh, nice.

Jason: That’s a common question from me.

Gian: Yeah. Well, it makes sense. “How’s your breathing?” I get my students when I’m teaching and they’re everywhere.

And for example, I’m teaching a course this, this, uh, block where it’s from 1:00 PM to 5:00 PM and in the summer in Amsterdam, when it’s beautiful out and it’s 29 degrees and they’re just all over the place. And so, I just tell them to like, We, we, I make them stand up. We do two or three deep breaths in and out, in through the nose, out through the mouth, and then they sit back down and the, as you say, the effect is so immediate because before they were like all crazy.

And then, you know, you sit back, sit back down, and then they can pay attention for another 15, 20 minutes.

Jason: But it, it’s also an easy exercise in tool to show me at a conference.

*Technical difficulties*

Jason: Okay. So. It’s a very good exercise, right? Teaching people to use the breath to see the impact it can immediately have on their ability to focus. I was speaking at a conference in Berlin once a few years ago, and I did this exercise with the, the crowd where I had them just sit. And I tried to get them to focus on one object.

I used an apple, like, just, I want you to close your eyes, visualize this apple in your mind, and the moment you’ve lost the apple, raise your hand. And literally, within a matter of no time, the whole audience’s hands were up. No apple. So, Then I made them stand up. I made them open their chest, open their ribcage, take a few deep breaths, stimulate the diaphragm, do a few exercise-

*Technical difficulties*

Jason: Right? They lost the apple. So, I had them all take a moment. Stand up. Um, And, uh, do some basic, uh, exercises to release the diaphragm, to expand their lung capacity, and then sit back down and do the same exercise and notice a dramatic, dramatic improvement on how they could focus, you know, I also played with their mind in other ways, but that’s not relevant.We can talk about that maybe later.

Gian: Okay. Okay.

Jason: No, it was funny. I will tell you since I brought it up, you can decide to keep it in your, uh, in your, uh, podcast or not. But when I arrived at this conference, I showed up wearing a turban, beads, a colorful robe. I was really dressed like the guru part, you know.

And I showed up intentionally early at this conference to walk around the crowds in the public spaces, you know, just to start making this visual for them. And for the first like five minutes, I was on stage talking in a very soft, very peaceful, very stereotypical sort of yoga guru. And I also had them close their eyes and embellish the story.

Who they think I am based on what they know so far. And while they had their eyes closed, I just got into normal street clothes. And then I had them open their eyes and I was like, okay, how true was your story? How true was this character you were building of me? Because this is another version of me. So now there’s 125 of you in the audience.

You each have your own different version of me, and that’s what we do every day, with the way we build the universe around us. And yours is unique to yourself, but now you see how flawed it is because you who knows what you thought about me in those few minutes. And now that’s completely changed just because I changed my clothes and how I’m speaking to you.Yeah.

Gian: That’s, but that’s super, that’s very, that’s super relevant for, for this podcast, for my research for like, my perception of the world because I definitely, I mean, a lot of stuff has been written about, uh, embodiment and, and also clothing and, and appearance and perception. So that’s I appreciate you are sharing that story cuz it’s, it definitely kind of relates a little bit more also to some of the questions I’m gonna ask later.

Um, okay. But yeah, no, okay. So, you know, we talk about this, uh, different embodiment or different, you know, way of presenting yourself and how it affects how we perceive the world. Do you notice that maybe in other contexts or like from maybe your own perspectives, maybe you could expand a little bit on that?

Jason: Well, I’ve been doing this work for a very long time, and I am at the point where nothing is real. I don’t believe my own thoughts. The only truth is what’s happening right now. Everything else. Is just sort of, uh, you know, bullshit really. So, I, it’s hard to even get involved or attached to it, but I’ve been looking at this and questioning this for a very long time.

Mm-hmm. I mean, that’s what you’re supposed to be doing in yoga, not putting your foot behind your head, removing the idea of who and what you think you are. Yeah.

Gian: Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. But, so, so, yeah, but like, I think I’m also like, you know, you say you’ve been, you’ve been practicing this work and you also, you know, use your, your body in, at least at this, at this particular juncture, like as a presentational tool.

Is there other ways that you maybe use your body for this kind of work? Right. It’s, I mean, yoga, maybe I’m completely mistaken. And, and from the way you’re constructing it, I am, but there’s also a physical, a physical embodied aspect of it. How do you, as you know, who you are as this, this person, how does that kind of figure into, um, your practice?

Jason: Well, I mean you, the whole goal of doing Asana in yoga it’s twofold, right? One, it’s to use your body as a tool to teach yourself focus, and the other is to prepare your body to be fit and supple enough to sit in meditation for hours at a time. That’s why Yogis did Asana was so that if they sat in a cross-legged sitting position with, you know, there it’s called Sushumna Nadi.

Like that’s another, that’s a side, that’s a sidebar in a straight line. So, your spine is erect, your chest is open, your feet are crossed. You can stay there with no physical complaints to distract you from trying to focus your mind. That’s it. That’s, that’s the embodiment of the physical aspect of yoga.

Gian: And for, and how relevant is that for you? I mean, I kind of sense a little bit of a, um,

Jason: I mean, it’s extremely relevant. I do yoga because I want to keep my body fit and strong so that I can enjoy my life to its fullest extent.

Gian: Okay. Nice. That’s it. That’s it. And do you, do you, I mean, maybe a plug for your own, own, uh, uh, uh, practice, school physicality, whatever.

Do you, are you, is it working?

Jason: Yes, Hahaha it’s working very well. Yeah.

Gian: Yeah. Yeah. Nice, nice. Okay. Indeed. Yeah. So, yeah. But, so can you, can you also, I mean, we, we talked a little bit about at the beginning, but can you maybe also expand on how your I guess your profession or your physicality or your embodiment, how it manifests in what you’re currently undertaking this, this project in, in, Italy.

Jason: Well, I mean, oof, that’s a, that’s a broad, uh, Let me, let me think of how I can, uh, make that clear.

How does the embodiment of my work thus far affect my present situation in regard to what I’m working on now in Italy? That’s, that’s your question, right?

Gian: Yeah.

Jason: Okay. Had I not been the sort of focused, driven, uh, entrepreneur with the help of my yoga practice, I would never have made it this far.

Plain and simple. It has taken me over a decade to reach the point in my career where I’m at right now, and to build and create the opportunities and possibilities that now sit in front of me and that are allowing me to create and to facilitate the creation of this dream project that I’m working on now.

Yeah. And yoga is a huge part of that, because without it, I wouldn’t have had my focus or my drive or found my, my personal intention was behind why I do what I do. That’s, that’s another big question for all of my students. What do you want? Why are you here? Why are you doing what you do? Answer me that, and then let’s continue the, the discussion, you know?

And I see it in the course of my life and my work and the choices I’ve made, and all of that is connected to me knowing what I want, using my practice to stay focused in, driven in the direction to what it is, what I want.

Gian: Yeah. So, you would say that your, your body really facilitates all of this, what’s currently happening?

Jason: The use of my body has helped me direct the focus of my mind and to also show me what is innately mine and what I truly want and not what I want based on current emotional states, fluxes, and, uh, who and what I think I am. No, no, no, no.

So yes. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s been the driving factor. Yeah. But in yoga, we call your body, your vehicle.

Gian Mm-hmm.

Jason: That’s it. It’s not who you are, it’s not what you are, it’s your car. Take care of it.

Gian: Sure. Yeah. Is there, but is there, so as maybe, um, you know, to frame this a little bit or to, to put, put a little bit of nuance on it, is there anything about, about your body that might not facilitate or maybe even hinder. Um, your current undertaking or what, what direction you might want to go in?

Jason: I mean, the simple fact that I’m middle aged and I’m 46 and things are starting to change. Yes. Energy levels, hormone levels, you know, that’s, that’s a true factor of life. And it’s also something that is taught in yoga. Like it’s another reason why you want to maintain an Asana practice and good breathing and good health, so that as the body starts to, let’s say, not deteriorate, but rejuvenate at a slower level or a slower pace, you still have, uh, a good quality of life. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

But no, of course, I’m not gonna lie, I’m 46. I exhaust more easily, but if I compare myself to other people of my age with different lifestyles, there’s a tremendous difference in what we can do with our physical bodies for sure.

Gian: Yeah. Okay. Nice. Yeah, I mean, comparison, it, it’s similarly, it’s a useful tool, but it, you know, also, with that sense, but I think I’m also curious as well about, so we talked a little bit about the field and like, I obviously don’t want you to mention other schools, but I also think I, I wanna hear about your, perspective on sort of your practice in comparison to other practices and how that might shape yoga as a whole.

Do you think that there’s something about maybe your embodiment or, or you know, what you’re doing or sort of what the effects that might have and, and if you could maybe contribute something, what would that thing be?

Jason: I think that doesn’t have much to do with the body, but it has more to do with the mind.

Gian: Okay.

Jason: And what’s driving an individual person to do yoga in the first place? Do they just wanna look better in their swimming suits, or do they want maybe a more peaceful, stable life? Or do they want to question all of the bullshit they throw at themselves every day? So that’s really down to the individual.

And a lot of schools of yoga are also lost in the dogma of worshiping or praising a teacher or a guru instead of actually doing introspective work. Yeah.

Gian: And so, I think maybe we, we can find a link also. And so, so we have introspective and then this notion of critical right? Being sort of self-reflective in that sense.

Jason: I mean, I could be highly critical of yoga as an industry, like I can tear it to shreds. I’ve written so many articles about specific schools of yoga approaches to yoga, what yoga is, and it’s. It is an industry now, you know, it is a massive global industry and a lot of parts of it are toxic in the sense that people get trapped.

Yeah. Because they don’t know any better. They think, ah, I have this teacher, I like her, she’s good. I’ll do whatever she says cuz she knows yoga. But if you actually investigated this person’s background, History, their lineage of study. You might wanna rethink blindly following them, and I guess that’s where being critical would come into your yoga practice.

You should criticize your teachers. You should question everything anyone is telling you, especially in regard to yoga, because it’s such a vast body of knowledge and there is no governing body that says, this school knows what they’re talking about. There isn’t. So, you should be highly critical of your yoga teachers.

I tell it to my students all the time. Question everything I’m saying too, you know. That’s part of introspection as well, and looking at who you are, what you want, and why you’re doing what you’re doing. Be critical of yourself.

Gian: Yeah. I literally just had this conversation about, uh, researcher positionality with students that I’m teaching methods to right now, and I’m just saying one perspective. Um, but I would highly recommend that you, you know, explore multiple,

Jason: As many as you can.

Gian: Yeah. And then choose for yourself, right. You know? Yes. Yeah. Make your, make your own decision, but from an informed place. Um, yeah, that’s, that’s super great. But I also, you know, I, I hear, um, you know, There’s, then of course we should critique institutions.

We should, you know, uh, it’d be offer some sort of self-introspection. But I also wanna locate sort of, um, the individuals that you. Um, might be speaking to or speaking with. Um, do you think that, for example, there, um, maybe different embodiments might matter or is it kind of, cuz I, I hear you talking, it’s mostly a, a cerebral thing or maybe a, a spiritual thing, but I also kind of want to get at like, What kind of, you know, I asked about your body and how it influences your practice, and I wanna know if you might have any thoughts on, on sort of your students’ bodies or like the general sort of yoga student body, uh, what that might look like. Like what are your, what are your, what’s your opinion on this?

Jason: Um, that it’s extremely vast and everybody is unique and how people use it is really up to them. All I can do as a teacher is maybe hold a mirror in front of them and then maybe guide them in a direction that serves their intended purpose to the best of their ability, and that’s it.

You know, every single body is unique. Yes, our muscular and skeletal systems are structurally the same, but your hips are different than my hips. Her knees are different than my knee. That’s why you, there’s no, there’s no one shape to fit everyone in and. That leads to limitations. Some people will never be able to use their body like another person or myself, just because their joint structures won’t allow it.

It’s not up to how they exercise or how much they stretch or how much they move. No, that’s just how your specific body came out. Not your fault. It has nothing to do with you, that’s just your genes.

Gian: But you would nevertheless still say that these kinds of because I I hear also in like physical industries where it’s like, oh, I’m not. You know, flexible enough, or I’m not strong enough to do this, or my body isn’t welcome in these, in these spaces. Do you have, is there some, have you ever exp is there have, have you had an experience of this where people are like, oh, I’m just not gonna, this is just not my thing. So, you know, because of my body.

Jason: uh, when people tell me that, I’m like, um, that’s like saying you’re too dirty to shower. Okay, you gotta start somewhere. Well, yeah, you know, And if somebody says, oh, I am not flexible, I can’t do yoga. Flexibility is a side effect of a yoga practice. It is not the goal. That’s why you need to first determine what is your goal and can I help you get there? And if so, how? That’s all.

Gian: nice. Yeah. Yeah, no I’ve, I’ve heard a lot about, you know, from your, from this conversation about kind of what your, your practice is, how you, how you conceptualize it. But I would like, I would like to kind of, um, not, uh, you know, move, move towards the end of the interview. With maybe a message or a takeaway thing about your passions.

Like if I say, what is, what are you most passionate about? What kind of message do you wanna put out there regarding body work regarding physicality, regarding embodiment? Um, what would it be if I, if you had to say a few words about it.

Jason: First, know what you want, and know that what you think you want is coming from a genuine place.

And it’s not coming from a place of an erratic, emotional state. Really question your desires, your motivations, and your intentions. Because if something comes from a, what I like to say, a place of truth inside yourself, it comes without any baggage. There’s no question to it. But if something comes up in your mind, but then it’s layered with, oh, but this, and what about that, then maybe that’s not really what you want.

You know, if people say a lot about your gut reaction and these exercises about, I’m gonna count to three and ask you a question, tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Right, something like this, what is it? We all know deep down inside what we want, but it’s covered in trauma, conditioning, insecurity, fear, many, many layers.

You need to get to the meat. You need to get to the heart of it, and that’s what doing yoga does if it’s done properly. And that’s all I try to encourage to my students. What, when I start an intensive training course, that’s that’s what I get. That’s the first thing I ask my students, what do you want and why are you here?

And let’s figure that out first. It’s very confronting for people. A lot of them cry, but you really get them to question their motives, but from a place of like truth and awareness. Not just impulsivity and trying to escape one thing and jump into another. No, it’s that, and that’s why I do what I do and that’s how I do it.

But from another angle, I’m a community person at heart. My ethos in business is how can I create something that many people can benefit from and share because. I also know that I’ve gotten where I’m at in my life because I’ve asked for help from other people along the way, and I’ve been assisted by other people along the way.

So, I try to do the same thing in how I create new businesses, new concepts, new communities, and that’s what drives me personally, is creating something that. I know I can share with other people and give them opportunities that they may never have had before in their life. Um, I’m also not blind to the fact that I’m a white American man with a certain layer of entitlement.

And I have never taken that for granted, ever. I have used it to the best of my ability, but with what I’ve gained, I have felt responsible to share it with people who didn’t have the same possibilities and opportunities, and that is vital for me and how I live my life. Yeah.

Gian: Nice. So, what I’m hearing also, I mean, There’s, there’s this, um, sort of embodied knowledge, right?

You have, it’s, it’s, you use, you know, get to the meat and, and knowing what you want, and it’s this gut reaction and it’s buried under a lot of things. And I think that, you know, at least for me, what resonated was like, we know things that aren’t kind of up here, right? That aren’t sort of, In the cerebral sense, and we can kind of know with our bodies, right?

So that, that, I think that was, that was kinda one piece of what I, you know, picked up on. And then, um, this notion of community I think is really important and it’s probably a good, uh, good note to end on. Um, but how do we, you know, relate to one another also, in terms of our different physicality? I think this is really, really important and it’s always, as, you know, as the, the topic of this podcast, important to be critical about it.

So, yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate, you know, these, uh, these thoughts and insights. Um, And I think, I think, yeah, like I said, it’s, this is a good place to, to put a, uh, a semicolon. Let, okay. We’ll on, we know, we’ll, uh, continue conversations and

Jason: If you wanna know more personally, do some work with me.

Gian: Yeah, I mean this, that’s, so, so I have, I have two, two questions kind of in, in terms of wrapping up. One is would you like to say, ask me anything or say anything to me as the first one and the second one? Is there anything that you would like to. quote, plug right to, to promote or to have out there in the way.

Jason: I mean, if I’m gonna first take this opportunity to plug things, um, I always tell my students before they decide to train with me hardcore, read my book first, because you might think I’m an asshole. You might disagree with everything I’m saying, or it might resonate with you. So yes, get your head out of your Asana.

And I chose that specific title because in. The yoga world, at least in the West. In contemporary yoga, people are fixated on form, right and appearance and how they look when they do yoga. This is why I don’t have mirrors in my schools. I don’t want you to look at yourself. I want you to look inside yourself.

Your body will tell you what it needs and wants without you staring at it while you’re trying to get into some sort of idealized sense of perfection. So, no, that’s not gonna happen here. At least not in my space. You know? Secondly, if I’m gonna plug something, my schools, YouCan yoga. And third, this project that I’m currently sitting in right now building and developing is this community space inside a farming village. I wouldn’t even call it a village. It’s more like a hamlet. It’s just a cluster of little houses and farms in the middle of the Antonina mountains in the north of Italy. Um, it’s an old hotel, restaurant and bar, and we’re turning it into a farms table restaurant, but also a space for yoga retreats and. Just a place to come. Turn off your phone, listen to the river, get into nature. Leave the the, the rat race behind because you’re gonna die too.

And is everything you’re fighting for. So important that you need to be constantly stressed and busy to make it happen.Take some space, slow down, and that’s what I’m trying to build here.

Gian: Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Jason: And if I wanted to ask you something, why are you doing this?

Gian: Uh, that’s a good, how’s my breathing? Uh, yes. There’s a, there’s a number of of reasons I, obviously like the logistical things in terms of research. Um, this is going to be. A simultaneous research output. So, I gained some funding for this and I wanted to kind of have my, my thinking out there in terms of what constitutes criticality, what constitutes embodiment.

I also wanted to talk to people and engage and have fun and listen to really interesting thoughts and perspectives. Um, and I also wanted to pay people for their time because I, that’s important. so that was also part of the funding, right? Like this is very, very transparent and political and, and, and, you know, and, and political.

Yes. Yeah. So, so I think, you know, those are the logistic things. But ultimately, I mean, if you wanna talk about purpose, this is a research endeavor is because I want to be the person that I needed to see when I was younger. Um, so when I put myself out there and when I try to achieve my goals, a lot of it is kind of, you know, uh, sort of salvaging or saving even my inner child.

Um, so yeah, I’ve, given it some thought I would say in terms of being critical in, in self-reflection. Uh, but yeah, those are, those are, I would say the kind of.

Jason: But I think that’s beautiful. I think as adults we should all strive to be the adults that were missing when we were kids.

Gian: I think. I think, I think so too.

Jason: I think can you make the best adult.

Gian: Be the best adult. And I also think, you know, going back to sort of like indigenous theory and stuff, like we should also strive to not only be good, you know, descendants, but also good ancestors, right? So we are trying to relate to, you know, people that came before us, but we should also think about how we relate to the people that will come after us.

I don’t plan on having kids. But I also think, you know, for me it’s really important to kind of, you know, be a role model, instill the next generation, help you know, when with whatever I can, maybe, be it teaching or you know, physical labor or whatever, um, you knowto do something, you know, positive somehow.So that’s, that’s kind of where I’m at.

Jason: Great.

Gian:  Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, um, I guess, yeah, that’ll be, um, the, the, the podcast. Uh, I’d, I’d like to thank everybody for listening. We’re going to plug Jason’s stuff, um, in the sort of underneath the comments below, that kind of thing.

Jason:  Uh, and yeah.

Gian:   please say again?

Jason:  I said, plug away,

Gian:  plug away, plug away.

But then, and also, and this is, this is a, a call, uh, a call to arms. Um, I really would love to continue this conversation, um, with Jason, but also with the, the listeners, right? So, underneath this is going to be the transcript. You can see it now, and I would really love if you guys could comment on it, you know, engage with it,even if you, you know, share it on social media, that kind of thing.

Um, so this would really, really help out this project. And also, for. Gaining insights into what constitutes criticality. Um, so that’d be really, really helpful. So, if you guys are listen watching, um, listening, whatever, uh, please, you know, help us out and also stay critical.

Jason: Yes. And you can also drop my, like, personal information if any of this resonates with someone and they’re curious about the project or schools or whatever.

I’m hosting people for free all summer. If anyone just wants to come and chill out and help me paint some walls. You know, come, come to the mountains. Great. I’m here until September.

Gian: Great. Great. Great. Okay,

Jason: Cool. Alright. Thank you very, yeah.

Gian: Thank you for coming. Thanks for, thanks for your thoughts. Thanks for, um, all of this wonderful information and, um, yeah.

Nice.

Jason: How was your breathing? Hahaha

Gian: All right. Cool. Talk to you later.